This is really a hard hitting piece. Some have already read through it, and some might have bailed-out through agreement or DISAGREEMENT. Taking a stand like that eliminates inquiry.
I think Krishnamurti was against evaluating through logic. Oh, logic was there too, but he constantly asked people to observe directly, if possible without the filter of a past image. The past images can trigger seemingly by themselves. That is what we are used to so what we accept as inevitable.
It might take a close look at all those images. Many of them are senseless, or obsolete. Noticing that, perhaps they could drop as uninteresting. I don't see forcing them down.
I don't believe it means to pick up a banner and charge forward. Far from it, Krishnamurti doesn't give a prescriptive. But if you notice world anxieties, (and worse) within yourself, see what it takes to purge those first. And it is not by trying. Then, some next step might become clear.
I am a half full versaes a half empty type of person.
In Book 8 of The Republic, Plato’s protagonist Socrates observes astutely that “the ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy. The same disease magnified and intensified by liberty overmasters democracy- the truth being that the excessive increase of anything often causes a reaction in the opposite direction and this is the case not only in the seasons and in vegetable and animal life, but above all in forms of government”.
Plato continues saying: “the excess of liberty, whether in states or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery and so tyranny naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme form of liberty.”
In writing these words, Plato revealed that societies are controlled through false dualisms that cause its victims to slip from one extreme to the other in an endless cycle. This vacillation will forever occur under the condition that the people remain ignorant of certain fundamental facts of life pertaining to the co-existence of our unique freedom-loving individuality and our obligation recognize our participation within a larger social unit and higher moral law.
To the degree that this paradox is not resolved, then the individuals within society will never achieve “inner directedness” (aka: sovereignty) required to give authenticity to a nation organized by the “consent of the governed.”
The core lesson explored by Plato throughout all of his dialogues is that we are a species of BOTH reason and passion who live in a discoverable universe where both freedom and law co-exist. As Plato outlines rigorously throughout his Timaeus, this universe is shaped by a creator who made it not only Good, but also embedded his essence into the smallest particle of creation. By virtue of our ability to discover and act on this causality (aka: intention) organizing Creation, Plato demonstrates with scientific rigor that humanity truly made in the living image of that Creator, and that laws and theories must flow from that discoverable fact.
To the degree that we fail to organize ourselves in this way, society will be doomed to live under varying types of oligarchical structures, while elites (modern day sophists) manage the passions, perceptions and convictions of the masses by casting shadows upon a cave wall which we believe to be our reality.
Hello George, and thanks for bringing up these points.
I believe that Plato had a wrong definition of liberty. Since the oligarchs are rich, they seem to think that they can do whatever they want. Therefore the desire of the common people is also to "do whatever they want". But that is not liberty. That is the anti-system, or people who are bent on the destruction of everything, foremost the society. LIBERTY is to be free of your conditioning. Conditioning is that hidden pattern of thoughts that run you like a robot.
So what we really have is an excess of the anti-system, oscillating with an excess of control of their destruction. The oligarchs may still be doing whatever they want in their own mad destruction, but now their numbers are below the critical mass of societal collapse.
Is that a false duality? The cycle is compensation and over-shoot. (There must be a delay in the structure, which causes oscillations in any system.) My insight is that our obligation to recognize our participation within a larger social unit is a tiny mental spasm, if not altogether non-existent .
“Inner directedness” to give authenticity to a nation organized by the “consent of the governed” is also a very scarce resource. Fifty percent of the American electorate are called a “Basket of Deplorables” by the other 50%.
Both Reason and Passion, (which is reaction), are wanderings in conditioned thought. Conditioned thought inhabits the past and the future. The workings of our nation inhabit the present. If the world is discoverable, will that be discoverable in future thinking (evolution), or will that be in the ever-present now, where everything exists for our examination?
My guess is Plato was immersed mostly in his own subjective thoughts, since then he had imagined a "creator" and given it his preferred qualities. He also says everything you see is the result of intention? The creator's intention, which he then shares with his honored colleagues, his thinking buddies. Has everything in your life worked out through your intention? Or is there mystery and chance involved? (It unfolds through your conditioning.) The shadows on the cave wall are our conditioned thought regardless of who projected them on the screen. That is where the investigation for true liberty comes in.
Answering the title question. There is only one major cause: we - each and every one of us - are not vitally involved in everyday living matters.
Everyone should personally, manually do their own laundry, prepare their own food, clean their own place and do their own part of the work for the society. Personally. No proxies, no servants, no employees. No delegation of household roles to husbands, wives or children. No babysitters.
No management boards who really do nothing, no supervisory bodies who do nothing, no regulatory or administration bodies who do nothing. No fake business, aka stock exchange. No academia, no PhDs, no philosophical writings. No fake knowledge about matters that are invisible or beyond our direct reach. No fake knowledge about the times of which we have no real idea and which are impossible to understand.
Only the things that are truly essential to everyday life.
>We are not vitally involved doesn't mean we should do the ironing of our clothes. It means that we are not vitally involved, or even marginally involved with our attention. Our attention is off wandering in our thoughts about regrets from the past, and worries, hope, fears, or big plans about the future. If our thinking is our whole outlook on life, then it rarely if ever rests in the present. RESTS is the key word, meaning a stop to bringing in our memories, conclusions, and judgments (rejection and acceptance), from our pre-made "play-book".
By “vital”, I mean connecting with the relevant subject matter. Becoming part of it. It’s a process beyond the mind.
Pet owners (probably) know it. You get a pet in your home, and you live together for some time. You feed it, you clean up, you take care of their health, etc. But there is no connection. It’s very obvious with dogs. Pet dogs are almost always vitally involved in their “masters”. They are connected. The humans in care are in most cases not.
One day, if you are lucky, you look at this being and something inside you clicks. From that moment on, you are connecting with your pet animal. A nice synonym: from now on, you care.
Exactly the same process is in human relationships. We live alongside, but we are not vitally involved. Especially in close families. The more so after some time spent together. We do not care about each other. We take care about our daily needs and stuff, but we do not really see the other person. This level of caring (vital involvement) is extremely rare.
Whenever harm is done, intentional, accidental or by negligence, it is proof of the absence of this involvement. Covid enforcers (doctors and nurses) are the most recent proof of it. None of them cared about you. They cared about their incentives, obedience, employment, dancing and more, but not about you. No vital involvement - which is so prevalent in all public services. And it’s not about money or time. It just doesn’t click inside these people.
We are so preoccupied with our own mind and its stuff that there is no room for the other. Smartphone and anti-social media addicts are the climax of this catastrophe.
There is a beautiful scene in “Déjà vu” (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0453467/ 0:21). A father of a missing woman is talking to a special agent investigating the case. The agent routinely assures the father. The father gives the agent photos of his daughter, saying “I know how these things go... and I need her to matter to you.”
This is how vital involvement is coming into existence. Very rare.
This is really a hard hitting piece. Some have already read through it, and some might have bailed-out through agreement or DISAGREEMENT. Taking a stand like that eliminates inquiry.
I think Krishnamurti was against evaluating through logic. Oh, logic was there too, but he constantly asked people to observe directly, if possible without the filter of a past image. The past images can trigger seemingly by themselves. That is what we are used to so what we accept as inevitable.
It might take a close look at all those images. Many of them are senseless, or obsolete. Noticing that, perhaps they could drop as uninteresting. I don't see forcing them down.
I don't believe it means to pick up a banner and charge forward. Far from it, Krishnamurti doesn't give a prescriptive. But if you notice world anxieties, (and worse) within yourself, see what it takes to purge those first. And it is not by trying. Then, some next step might become clear.
.
I am a half full versaes a half empty type of person.
In Book 8 of The Republic, Plato’s protagonist Socrates observes astutely that “the ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy. The same disease magnified and intensified by liberty overmasters democracy- the truth being that the excessive increase of anything often causes a reaction in the opposite direction and this is the case not only in the seasons and in vegetable and animal life, but above all in forms of government”.
Plato continues saying: “the excess of liberty, whether in states or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery and so tyranny naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme form of liberty.”
In writing these words, Plato revealed that societies are controlled through false dualisms that cause its victims to slip from one extreme to the other in an endless cycle. This vacillation will forever occur under the condition that the people remain ignorant of certain fundamental facts of life pertaining to the co-existence of our unique freedom-loving individuality and our obligation recognize our participation within a larger social unit and higher moral law.
To the degree that this paradox is not resolved, then the individuals within society will never achieve “inner directedness” (aka: sovereignty) required to give authenticity to a nation organized by the “consent of the governed.”
The core lesson explored by Plato throughout all of his dialogues is that we are a species of BOTH reason and passion who live in a discoverable universe where both freedom and law co-exist. As Plato outlines rigorously throughout his Timaeus, this universe is shaped by a creator who made it not only Good, but also embedded his essence into the smallest particle of creation. By virtue of our ability to discover and act on this causality (aka: intention) organizing Creation, Plato demonstrates with scientific rigor that humanity truly made in the living image of that Creator, and that laws and theories must flow from that discoverable fact.
To the degree that we fail to organize ourselves in this way, society will be doomed to live under varying types of oligarchical structures, while elites (modern day sophists) manage the passions, perceptions and convictions of the masses by casting shadows upon a cave wall which we believe to be our reality.
Hello George, and thanks for bringing up these points.
I believe that Plato had a wrong definition of liberty. Since the oligarchs are rich, they seem to think that they can do whatever they want. Therefore the desire of the common people is also to "do whatever they want". But that is not liberty. That is the anti-system, or people who are bent on the destruction of everything, foremost the society. LIBERTY is to be free of your conditioning. Conditioning is that hidden pattern of thoughts that run you like a robot.
So what we really have is an excess of the anti-system, oscillating with an excess of control of their destruction. The oligarchs may still be doing whatever they want in their own mad destruction, but now their numbers are below the critical mass of societal collapse.
Is that a false duality? The cycle is compensation and over-shoot. (There must be a delay in the structure, which causes oscillations in any system.) My insight is that our obligation to recognize our participation within a larger social unit is a tiny mental spasm, if not altogether non-existent .
“Inner directedness” to give authenticity to a nation organized by the “consent of the governed” is also a very scarce resource. Fifty percent of the American electorate are called a “Basket of Deplorables” by the other 50%.
Both Reason and Passion, (which is reaction), are wanderings in conditioned thought. Conditioned thought inhabits the past and the future. The workings of our nation inhabit the present. If the world is discoverable, will that be discoverable in future thinking (evolution), or will that be in the ever-present now, where everything exists for our examination?
My guess is Plato was immersed mostly in his own subjective thoughts, since then he had imagined a "creator" and given it his preferred qualities. He also says everything you see is the result of intention? The creator's intention, which he then shares with his honored colleagues, his thinking buddies. Has everything in your life worked out through your intention? Or is there mystery and chance involved? (It unfolds through your conditioning.) The shadows on the cave wall are our conditioned thought regardless of who projected them on the screen. That is where the investigation for true liberty comes in.
.
Answering the title question. There is only one major cause: we - each and every one of us - are not vitally involved in everyday living matters.
Everyone should personally, manually do their own laundry, prepare their own food, clean their own place and do their own part of the work for the society. Personally. No proxies, no servants, no employees. No delegation of household roles to husbands, wives or children. No babysitters.
No management boards who really do nothing, no supervisory bodies who do nothing, no regulatory or administration bodies who do nothing. No fake business, aka stock exchange. No academia, no PhDs, no philosophical writings. No fake knowledge about matters that are invisible or beyond our direct reach. No fake knowledge about the times of which we have no real idea and which are impossible to understand.
Only the things that are truly essential to everyday life.
All divisiveness will disappear in an instant.
>We are not vitally involved doesn't mean we should do the ironing of our clothes. It means that we are not vitally involved, or even marginally involved with our attention. Our attention is off wandering in our thoughts about regrets from the past, and worries, hope, fears, or big plans about the future. If our thinking is our whole outlook on life, then it rarely if ever rests in the present. RESTS is the key word, meaning a stop to bringing in our memories, conclusions, and judgments (rejection and acceptance), from our pre-made "play-book".
.
By “vital”, I mean connecting with the relevant subject matter. Becoming part of it. It’s a process beyond the mind.
Pet owners (probably) know it. You get a pet in your home, and you live together for some time. You feed it, you clean up, you take care of their health, etc. But there is no connection. It’s very obvious with dogs. Pet dogs are almost always vitally involved in their “masters”. They are connected. The humans in care are in most cases not.
One day, if you are lucky, you look at this being and something inside you clicks. From that moment on, you are connecting with your pet animal. A nice synonym: from now on, you care.
Exactly the same process is in human relationships. We live alongside, but we are not vitally involved. Especially in close families. The more so after some time spent together. We do not care about each other. We take care about our daily needs and stuff, but we do not really see the other person. This level of caring (vital involvement) is extremely rare.
Whenever harm is done, intentional, accidental or by negligence, it is proof of the absence of this involvement. Covid enforcers (doctors and nurses) are the most recent proof of it. None of them cared about you. They cared about their incentives, obedience, employment, dancing and more, but not about you. No vital involvement - which is so prevalent in all public services. And it’s not about money or time. It just doesn’t click inside these people.
We are so preoccupied with our own mind and its stuff that there is no room for the other. Smartphone and anti-social media addicts are the climax of this catastrophe.
There is a beautiful scene in “Déjà vu” (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0453467/ 0:21). A father of a missing woman is talking to a special agent investigating the case. The agent routinely assures the father. The father gives the agent photos of his daughter, saying “I know how these things go... and I need her to matter to you.”
This is how vital involvement is coming into existence. Very rare.