8 p. WHY DOESN’T MAN CHANGE? Guest post

Let’s stop a minute and consider; What is at the root of the world’s divisiveness? Why do we continue to create separation?

Science and technology change through a gradual evolution of thought, producing technological expertise. MAN’S PSYCHOLOGY, (his fears) don’t change through symbolic systems.

I have followed this latest book on pre-modern history, “Ancient Rus and the Great Steppe”. I have also read most of the books in this library. We know that the past was a wasteland of continuous turmoil and great atrocity. But aren’t we in the midst of that same atrocity today, with ruthless wars breaking out by the month or by the week?

I have recently been re-introduced to the writings of J. Krishnamurti. He speaks directly and non-esoterically to this topic. Should we give a little attention to what (maybe) underlies the present state of the world? Please let me share some of what he says. (4,800 words)

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One of our great problems is order and disorder, freedom and conformity. Until we resolve this question within ourselves, not as a group, not as a community or by organized acceptance of a certain formula, (an ideology)—unless we, as human beings, as individuals, resolve this problem, our revolt or freedom will only be a further process of confusion and conflict. We conform—that is fairly obvious—right throughout the world, hoping that conformity will bring about order. We must have order. No society, no individual—within or without—can develop with disorder; there must be order to advance. And order is not possible by merely stating what order is, in terms of a categorical or a patterned order.

Order can only come about when we discover for ourselves what breeds disorder. Out of the understanding of what brings about disorder, naturally will come order. That is fairly simple. When I know what brings about disorder in a family, in myself, or in society; and if I wish, as a human being, to bring about order, I must first clarify or put away disorder. So, the order of which we are talking is not a positive act, but rather it comes about through the understanding of the negation of what is disorder. If I understand what is disorder and negate it, to put it aside, clarify, inquire into all the implications involved, if I understand the totality of disorder, this may appear superficially as negation. But out of this understanding of disorder comes a natural order: not the other way round; not by conforming to what is considered as order—such conformity only breeds greater disorder. We are human beings in conflict, in fear, in anxiety, with a great many problems of obedience, acceptance, anxiety, seeking power, and so on. And so merely to seek order, or the stated pattern of order, and then conform to that pattern, essentially breeds disorder.

Please, we must understand this, not just logically. Because, you know, it is one of the most unfortunate things that we all preach endlessly, write books, have theories, formulas and concepts, and from it, there is no action at all. We are masters at verbalizing, theorizing, having concepts, formulas, and exploring these concepts dialectically, hoping that, through the discovery of the truth in theories, we will come to action; and therefore, there is inaction, we do not do a thing.

We must at the very beginning understand that order cannot possibly be brought about through conformity to a pattern, under any circumstances—whether it is an ideological order, a Communist order or a religious order or a personal demand for orderliness. This order, which is extraordinarily positive, can only come about through understanding this issue very profoundly, with which you may not agree at all—at least I hope you will neither accept nor discard; that leads nowhere.

We have to find out what causes disorder in the world {outside and within}. The understanding of the disorder outwardly brings about the understanding of the disorder inwardly. But this disorder, which we divide as the outer and the inner, is essentially one and the same; they are not two separate disorders, because each of us, as a human being, is both society and the individual. The individual is not separate from society; the individual has created the psychological structure of society, and in that psychological structure he is caught. And therefore, he tries to break away from that psychological structure, which is a mere revolt and therefore does not resolve any problem.

Out of disorder nothing can grow, nothing can function. You must have tremendous order to bring about the understanding of truth, or whatever one likes to call it. You must have great order, and this order cannot possibly come about through revolt, or through conformity, or through acceptance of a formula—socialist, capitalist, religious, spiritual, or any other formula.

There is no order now in the world. War is the essence of disorder, whether it was in Vietnam or here or in Europe, Middle East or elsewhere; war at any level, for any cause, is disorder. And why is there this disorder in the world—in this world in which we have to live and function as human beings?

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Obviously, one of the reasons of this enormous, destructive disorder in the world is the division of religions: you as a Hindu and I a Muslim; you as a Christian—Catholic, Protestant, Episcopalian—a multitude of divisions. Obviously, religion has been put together by man in order to help him to become civilized, (not to seek God)—you cannot find God through beliefs, dogmas, through rituals, through repetition, through reading the Gita or the Bible, or through following a priest. This world is divided into religions—organized religions with their dogmas, with their rituals, with their beliefs, with their superstitions, throughout the world. And religions do not bring people together at all. They talk about it, they say, “If you see God, we are all brothers.” But we are not brothers! We are looking at facts and not at hopes and theories.

Religions have separated man, and that is one of the factors of great disorder. If you are not agreeing with me, you are not seeing the facts. You see how, in Christendom, for two thousand years they have been fighting each other, Catholics and Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox, Catholics among themselves, and there have been tortures, (and way worse atrocities). And this has also happened in India—the Muslims against the Hindus and the Hindus against the Muslims; one guru against another guru; one guru having fewer disciples, the other having more and wanting more!

Please do listen to all this, because we are reaching a great crisis in our lives, not only as individuals but as a world community. And any man who wants not only to bring about order in himself, but to bring about a good society—(not a great society), but at least a good society—needs to resolve this problem. So, we can see factually in the world that religions have separated man and that there have been tremendous, religious wars in the East as well as in the West. So that is one of the roots of disorder. The organized beliefs with their churches, rituals, have become a tremendous corporation, a business affair, which has nothing to do with religion.

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And nationalism, a recent poisonous growth, is also the cause of disorder. India has probably never been nationalistic. Europe has divided itself into many sovereign states, fighting each other, and tearing at each other for more land, for greater economic expansion and so on. They have recently had two tremendously destructive wars, most destructive within the memory of man. Nationalism has divided the people—the Englishman, German, the Frenchman, the Indian. And now you are becoming nationalistic in India also. It is hoped that, through nationalism, human beings can be united. Worshiping the same flag, a piece of cloth—that has no meaning. Please do not laugh. This is not a rhetorical or amusing, entertaining gathering. We are very serious; we are concerned with immense problems.

War has brought disorder in the world. War is always destructive, there is never a righteous war. And there have been within the recorded history of mankind, I believe, something like 14,600 wars and more. Since 1945 there have been forty wars! In the first war, the people might have said, “Let us hope this will be the last war!” The mothers, wives, husbands, children, must have cried. And we are still crying, after these 5,500 years. People have accepted war as the way of life. In India, you are also accepting war as the way of life: more armaments, more generals, more soldiers. And as long as you have sovereign governments—that is, nationalistic separate governments, sovereign governments with their armies—you are bound to have wars. You may not have your son killed at Banaras, but you will have a son killed in Vietnam, whether he is an American or a Vietnamese. So, as long as there are sovereign governments, there must be war.

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And what is a man to do who says, “I will not kill”? You understand? In this country, (India) for generations upon generations, a certain class of people has been brought up not to kill, not to hurt an animal, not even a fly. And all that is gone. They will write volumes about the spiritual inheritance of India, but the actual fact is that we have destroyed all that inheritance; we are just verbally repeating something which is not real.

We have two issues involved: ✓What is a human being to do in a country like this, or in Europe, or in America, when he asserts that he will not kill? And strangely, in this country for several years, perhaps thirty years or so, you have been preaching nonviolence—you have been shouting it from the housetops; that has been the main export from this country to the West—“Don’t kill,” “Ahimsa,” and so on. Now you are brought together, united by war! Somebody told me yesterday with great enthusiasm, with great pleasure, that war has united India as never before! I have been told this in several places, by several people. You know, this is not very strange. This has happened in England, where class division is as strong as it is here; they all slept together in the underground, they were all terribly united, through hate! And you have the spurious arguments: What will you do, if you are in the government; would you not fight if you were attacked? (How about make treaties before hostilities?) Obviously, if you are in a government, if you are the head of a sovereign state with an army, with all the paraphernalia of uncivilized existence, you are bound to attack or to defend. Nowadays nobody talks about being attacked or defending. You are just at WAR; do not justify war!

In this country, in spite of its nonviolence, its preaching of non-killing for thousands upon thousands of years, there has not been one human being who has said, “We will not kill.” There have been whispering campaigns; you and I privately tell each other in our rooms that we won’t kill. But publicly we never get on a platform and say, “I won’t kill,” and go to prison or get shot for saying it. There has not been one boy or girl or one human being who has stood-up against the stream. When it was popular to preach nonviolence, we all supported it. Now that war is popular, you also go for war. I am not talking of just those individuals.

What is a human being to do, who says that he will not kill? What is he to do? He cannot do anything, can he? Either he can go to prison, or be shot, killed by his own government, because he is a rebel, disloyal—you know all the words put out by the politicians and by the religio-political entities.

Please inquire into yourselves: why is it that there has not been one human being in India who said, “This is wrong, killing is wrong”? Not as governments, but as a human being, why is it that you have not said it? Must you be challenged? Through all the various organizations created for nonviolence, why have they not stood up? There is something very radically wrong in this country, when they have not got that conviction of what they believe. So, nationalism is disorder, it breeds huge disorder. War breeds disorder. Obviously, religions also breed disorder. So civilized man, a man who is really human, will not accept sovereign governments. You understand? You say, “I am a Hindu”—who cares whether you are a Hindu, a Chinese, or whatever you call yourself? What matters is what you are, not what your labels are.

Unless you, as a human being, are free from all these labels—Socialist, Communist, Capitalist, American, Englishman, Indian, Muslim—as long as you are labeling yourself in any way, secretly or openly, you are breeding disorder in the world. And also, you are breeding disorder outside and inside, when you belong to any religious group, or follow any guru or practice. Because truth is not to be found by following somebody, by making it all easy for you as a pattern: doing this, following this, meditating this way, disciplining that way. You will never get it that way. To find truth you must be free. You must stand alone, swim against the current, battle. You know, I was told the other day that this war that India has just had, (Indo-Pakistani war of 1971), it is justified because the Bhagavad-Gita said so! I thought that was rather lovely—don’t you?

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So what are you going to do about it—not as Indians? What are you, as a human being, confronted with this problem—what are you going to do about it? There is poverty in this country, tremendous poverty—you know it as well as I do. And this poverty is going to increase because of this war. There is lack of rain, also inefficiency, corruption, and internal national divisions. We will accept food from one country and not from another—all politics! So, as a human being, what are you going to do? Either you accept disorder and continue to live in disorder and therefore inefficiency and therefore wars, therefore poverty, therefore hunger, or, as a human being, you reject it totally, not partially. You cannot reject something partially, you do not reject poison a little bit, you reject the whole thing. And that means you have to stand alone. Then you will be despised by society. You might be shot. (Probably not in this country, it is not that efficient yet).

So seeing all this, the outer disorder and inward disorder, merely to become a pacifist is not the answer. The answer is much deeper than all this. But to find the answer, one has to reject the obvious things. You cannot keep the obvious things that are poisoning you, and then try to see much deeper. You cannot say, “I will have my pet guru and follow him, accept what he says and meditate, and then try to seek a much deeper answer.” The two cannot go together. Either you reject the total thing, (or not at all)—reject as human beings but not as a collective body. Because, when you become a collective body and reject, then you are merely conforming and you may have the support of a hundred, or a million people behind you—that is a mere following of another, in a different way. But to stand out completely alone—that is a very difficult thing for most people, because they are frightened of losing their job. You know all this.

So seeing all this enormous disorder in ourselves and in the world, how is one to bring about any order? As we said, order will come when we understand disorder, when we cease to be nationalist, when we are really seeking truth, freedom—not through some organization, not through some belief, not through some guru.

What makes each one of us change—you understand? That is the real question. What makes you, who have been nationalistic, or a tremendously devout person with regard to some religion or guru, change? Now, how will you drop all this? How will you drop your Hinduism, your gurus, your nationalism? How will you stand alone, not follow what everybody says? What will make us, as human beings, do this? That is the real issue. You understand, sirs? What will make you divest all this at one blow, one breath, and say, “I am out”? Probably, most of you have not thought about this at all. You have never said to yourself in your heart, “Why have I not stood up with tears in my eyes not to kill anybody?” Why have you not done it? Don’t invent reasons. Why have you not done it?

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And what will make you change? That is the real issue. Either you say, “I do not want to change, I will accept things as they are. That is good enough for me; there is disorder, poverty, there is starvation; there will be wars. There have been wars for five thousand years and more, and we will have some more wars. What does it matter? The world is maya anyhow, and what does it all matter?” You accept it, as most of you apparently do. Because we human beings have an extraordinary capacity to adjust to anything—to living in a small room for the sake of God, doubled up, having one meal, a tortured mind; or to the appalling, bestial conditions of war, not at Banaras but at the front, in Vietnam, whether American or Vietnamese deaths. Human beings can adjust themselves to anything, to dirt and squalor in the streets, open gutters, a corrupt municipality; they can put up with anything. After all, adjustability is the difference between animals and human beings—animals cannot adjust, but human beings can.

So either we accept things as they are and go along miserably, torturing ourselves, unhappy, killing and being killed, seeking fulfillment and being frustrated, wanting to be leaders, restless, unhappy—which is what we are doing. If you accept that, there is nothing more to be said. You understand? You say, “That is my life, that is the way my father lived, my grandfather lived, my sons will live. And generations will come that will live likewise.” If you accept that, that is all right. Don’t introduce another problem for yourselves.

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If you don’t accept it, as a man of affection who feels strongly, who feels this whole monstrous thing, then what are you to do? How is such a man to change? How is he to bring about a mutation of consciousness within himself? And that mutation perhaps it will not, or will, affect society—but that is irrelevant. Society wants this disorder—maybe not wars; but greed, envy, competition, seeking for power, and position. That is what society is. And when you see all that, how will you change? You understand my question, sirs? How will you change?

May I proceed to point out what brings about this enormous mutation in a human mind? May I go on with it? But it is not a verbal statement, it is not a thing about which you say, “I agree” or “I disagree.” Because if you see there is disorder, and you are passionate, you do not say, “Show me the way and I will follow it.” We are not talking of like and dislike, what is convenient, what is not convenient, nor in terms of a Communist, a Socialist, a Hindu, a Buddhist, or whatever you are. We are talking nonverbally, factually, direct seeing, about the necessity of tremendous, human change. Because, you see, the electronic brains, automation, and other technological things are going to bring about enormous changes in the world. Man is going to have more leisure (maybe; or more turmoil)—it is not yet in this country; it is coming in Europe, and the beginning of it is already in America. So all these things, automation, computers, more weapons, more wars, nationalism, these religious differences—to face all these and to break through all these, there must be in each one of us, not as a collective group belonging to some organization, but as human beings, a tremendous mutation. How will you change? What is the thing, what is the element, what is the energy that is necessary to break down this tremendous destructive chaos in which one lives?

What makes one change, even a little bit? Say, for instance, you smoke, if you do. What will make you drop it? Doctors state that your lungs will be affected, and that is one of the ways of making you drop smoking—through fear. Punishment and reward—those are the only things that will force us to change. Punishment and reward; heaven and hell; next life, and therefore behave in this life; therefore, the carrot and the whip—that is, punishment and reward. That is the only thing we know: “It gives me ✓greater profit, ✓greater satisfaction, ✓greater energy, ✓greater amusement, ✓greater excitement, ✓greater adventure; therefore, I will do it!” Now, any change taking place through punishment and reward—is that change? Please, sirs, you have to answer this question, not I. So don’t go to sleep! Is that a radical change, not just a superficial change? Superficial change—we have done that for centuries, and that has not brought any mutation in the human being, no revolution in the human mind. We are asking the question much more fundamentally.

If there is no punishment and reward, what will make you change? And there is no punishment and reward. Who is going to punish you, who is going to reward you? All those things are over. God is not going to reward you for righteous behavior; he does not care two pins for your behavior, right or wrong. The Church no longer has any importance. You may go to “confession” and so on, in Europe that is Catholic. But all that is disappearing, all that is being thrown overboard, except in the most backward states. Perhaps in India, where you say a little, but not too much, you pretend to be a little more careful; but that is all. Actually, there is nobody to punish and reward. On the contrary, society says, “Come along; be greedy, be envious, be competitive, fight, quarrel; kill the Muslim and the Muslim will kill you.” Society loves that, and the politicians play up to it! So there is nobody who is going to reward you or punish you—nobody. Neither your guru—you don’t believe in gurus anyhow—nor your gods and goddesses will reward or punish you. Probably only your wife or husband can punish you. When you have a family, your wife says, “I am not going to sleep with you tonight” or “I am not going to do this or that”—that is all the control you have!

So since there is no reward and no punishment—(and there is not any actually), when you investigate—how will you bring about this change? You understand the problem that is getting more and more complex for each one of us? Is this a problem to you? It must be, if you are at all thoughtful, serious, if you have watched the world’s events. Seeing what is taking place in this country; knowing that religions have no meaning any more—probably they never had any meaning—seeing the futility of sacred books; seeing the absurdity of following any guru, however profitable, however pleasant; seeing that nobody can give you freedom, nobody can give you a mind that is healthy, strong, and deeply silent; seeing that no society, nobody is going to punish you or reward you—seeing all this and realizing that human beings must change radically, fundamentally, deep down, how will this change come about?

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There are two ways of looking at things. ✓Either one sees intellectually, verbally, all that we have been talking about. Verbally, that is superficially with our symbolic model of reality. Then the question, “How am I to change?” will never occur to that person. He will say, “It has been like this and it will go on like this.” Or he says, “I see it, I smell it, I taste it, it boils within me; I am burning with it, and yet NO action comes out.” And ✓there is the other who sees it, and the very act of seeing; is the act.

We cannot afford to be just ordinary human beings anymore. It was all right at one time. You cannot afford to be an ordinary, mediocre, dull, stupid, human being any more. The challenge is too immense. You will have to do something. So if you see it intellectually, there is no problem to you. If you see this whole thing from a comfortable easy chair—of course you happen to have a little money or a good job or...

Or we can fight it out. If you belong to some Socialist organization, Communist or whatever it is, then you want the world to change according to that pattern, because you play an important part, or you are a leader, you are this, and it gives you a certain importance—you all love that. ✓That is one kind of person. ✓Then there is the other kind—intellectuals who talk, who preach, who write books, who go to meetings, who cannot be kept away from any meetings, who always want to talk, talk. ✓Then there are the others who see this mess, this confusion, this disorder, this misery, this agony that is going on in the world, and don’t know what to do. They cannot break away from their nationalism, from their religion, from their gurus, and so on and on.

✓Then there are very few who say, “Look, I see this chaos, actual chaos”; and the very perception of it is my action—not that they see it, and act later. It is like seeing something poisonous and dropping it. There are very few of this kind, because that demands tremendous energy, inquiry, application, attention, stripping yourself of all your vanity, of all your stupidity, of everything.

The intellectual obviously will have his own kind of armchair; if he takes away this armchair, he will invent another armchair. If you take away his organization, he becomes a super-Communist or something else. So, there is only the middleman left, who says, “I see it, I do not know what to do, tell me what to do. Tell me the next step; step by step tell me, and I will follow it.” That is his difficulty. He is looking for somebody else to tell him what to do. Instead of following that old bearded gentlemen or that lady, who have been your gurus, you throw them away.

The gentleman asks why is it that though I have listened for forty years more or less of the same thing in different words and expressing it differently, there has not been one human being who is different? Why? Will you answer it, sir? Either what is being said is false and therefore has no position in the world; it is false and has no validity, and therefore you do not pay attention; your own reason, your own intelligence, your own affection, your own good sense says, “What rubbish you are talking!” Or you hear what is being said, but it means nothing to you, because the other is much more important.

Truth has no action. Truth is weak. Truth is not utilitarian; truth cannot be organized. It is like the wind, you cannot catch it, you cannot take hold of it in your fist and say, “I have caught truth today” Therefore, it is tremendously vulnerable, impotent like the blade of grass on the roadside—you can kill it, you can destroy it. But we want it as a thing to be used for a better structure of society. And I am afraid you cannot use it, you cannot—it is like love, love is never potent. It is there for you, take it or leave it.

The problem is not that we have spoken for forty years. But the problem is: How is a human being, who has listened for forty years with a dry heart, without a tear in his eyes, who sees all this and does not do a thing.

He whose heart is broken up, whose heart is empty, whose mind is full of words and theories, and full of himself—how is he to make his heart love again? That is the real question.

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